Division of Labor No. 16: A personal stylist and musician raising 2 kids in St. Louis

Who else is ready for lunch at 10:30 a.m.? (Me!)

Hello! I’m back from vacation and about as well rested as a middle-aged working mother can be. It was wonderful to spend six days away from reality and focused (almost) completely on my family. I mostly left my phone in our room, so photos are few and far between, and I’m OK with that.

We left for vacation on Sunday and flew home Friday night, and I have to say that I think that’s the perfect travel schedule, especially when you’ve got kids. I realize it might not save you money in terms of booking off-peak flights, but you get all of Saturday to pack and prepare (which is a huge job, right?) and then another weekend to recover, do laundry, and get your life back in order before you have to get back to work (another huge job, LOL).

I have three weeks at home, and then my mom and I are heading to London for a Mother’s Day trip. We were originally supposed to go in the fall of 2020 to celebrate some milestone birthdays, and well, we all know that didn’t happen. I can’t believe it took us five years to reschedule, but it feels like something was always coming up. I’m so excited! I haven’t been to London in more than a decade. I’ve started collecting some recommendations, but if you have any advice on must-see spots, please drop suggestions in the comments! I want to take some pretty walks, eat some really good Indian food, see some plays, and do a little bit of shopping. Oh yeah, and I suppose we should see a museum or two.

But I digress! This isn’t supposed to be a travel-focused newsletter. That’s for another day! Today, I’m thrilled to have a Division of Labor from the lovely Dacy Gillespie, a body-positive personal stylist, founder of The Mindful Closet, and creator of the fantastic newsletter unflattering.

Dacy and her husband, Dave, are raising two school-aged kids in St. Louis, Missouri. I found this DoL so relatable. The struggle to work with a sick kid around. The 10:30 a.m. lunch. The frustration of feeling tired the minute you finally get an hour alone. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it, too! I’ll let Dacy take it from here!

Name: Dacy Gillespie
Age: 47
Spouse’s Name: David DeRiso
Spouse’s Age: 44
Relationship Status: married
Number of children and their ages: two boys, ages 6 (L) and 10 (M)

Your job and how many hours you work per week:
I’m a weight-inclusive, anti-diet personal stylist, which means that I help people uncover their authentic style and feel good in their clothes by rejecting fashion rules and ideal standards of beauty imposed by the patriarchy, white supremacism, and capitalism. I work with clients one on one and in small groups via Zoom, have online courses, and write the Substack newsletter unflattering. I started this business in 2013 after burning out in several other fields, so from the beginning, I’ve tried to set up my schedule to allow time for rest. I typically work from about 8:30 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. most days, sometimes a bit more in the late afternoon or evening, and anywhere from 20 to 30 hours a week. A lot of it depends on when my kids are home from school, which always feels like it’s at least once a week. I know how lucky I am, and I’m so grateful I have the flexibility to schedule my work around our family’s and my needs.

Your spouse/partner’s job and how many hours they work per week:
Dave is a professional orchestral musician, and his full-time job is playing bass with the St. Louis Symphony. His work hours and schedule vary widely, but they’re not at all flexible. He has to be on stage rehearsing or performing from 25 to 30 hours a week, but that doesn’t include the time he spends practicing at home or getting to work early to warm up and set up. Every once in a while, there’s a week where the instrumentation of the program means he’s not needed, and he’ll have a week off.

Because our schedules are so varied, our shared Google calendar is a necessity.

Type of childcare you use:
We have finally reached a phase of parenting we’ve been looking forward to for 10+ years—both kids are in school! They get on the bus around 8:15 a.m. and are home around 3:45 p.m. I’m usually the default parent when kids are sick or off school if Dave has to work since his work isn’t flexible.

How do you split up household responsibilities:
We’ve divided some things by our personal preferences, some based on traditional gender roles, and some deliberately.

When our kids were babies and toddlers, we split parenting as equally as possible. Dave was lucky enough to have some paternity leave, so we were learning how to do things at the same time, and I never felt like I had to show him how to perform a parenting task. When I go away now, I can leave and completely shut off that part of my brain because I know he has it all covered.

We split up our days based on our personal best times of day. Dave’s not a morning person, so I am generally in charge of the mornings with kids: getting them up and fed, lunches, snacks, teeth brushed, and on the bus. By the end of the day, I’m usually completely drained and done with parenting, so Dave does bedtimes (except when he has to play a concert): medicine, teeth brushing, getting kids in bed, reading, etc.

I do a lot of the planning/carrying the mental load. I am the main communicator with the school/teachers, and I make appointments, buy all of the kids’ birthday and holiday gifts, buy friend birthday gifts, coordinate playdates, buy their clothes, decorate the house, do research around things the kids might be struggling with, take on emotional labor, decide what parenting approaches we should use, etc.

In an attempt to offset that, we decided that Dave would be in charge of all food-related tasks: meal planning, grocery shopping, and cooking. He also does all home maintenance and home projects and takes care of mowing the grass, landscaping, and anything else outside.

Whoever doesn’t cook cleans the kitchen after dinner, but throughout the day, we’re both constantly cleaning the kitchen. I handle all the laundry, except that our 10-year-old is responsible for his own laundry, and our 6-year-old is responsible for putting his laundry away. The boys also unload the dishwasher in the morning and clean their room once a week. We have two bathrooms, and we’re each responsible for one.

There are a lot of things that aren’t really assigned to one or the other of us, but we’ll just do when needed without asking, or if someone does ask. In addition to keeping the kitchen tidy, these are things like cleaning the floors, taking out the trash and recycling, and running different errands.

My preference for a certain level of cleanliness in our home has definitely been a cause of some tension. I’m easily overwhelmed and overstimulated and really feel best when the house is tidy. Dave is much more of an all-or-nothing type of person and would prefer to let the mess build up and then do one big clean. Because of this, I spend more time tidying and putting things away than anyone else (although the boys are responsible for putting their stuff away, usually after I’ve had to ask a few times).

What labor do you outsource?
At various points we have outsourced lawn maintenance and cleaning, and we’ve had babysitters, but at the moment, we’re not outsourcing anything. We’re about to start a kitchen renovation, and while Dave is hoping to do the bulk of the work, we’ll definitely outsource some of it.

How did you decide who does what:
For a long time, there was a lot of me resenting Dave when I felt like I was doing more. Dave would say that all I had to do was ask for help or write him a to-do list, but as we know, that’s another form of mental load. In 2021, we went through the Fair Play deck of cards. We first laid out the cards as they were currently being handled and then redistributed them to make the load more equal. This is when Dave took over the “food” category after seeing how many cards I held. Things have worked much better since then.

Can you share one “parenting hack” that’s worked for your family:
I have two things that aren’t really hacks but privileges we are so grateful for. About eight years ago, my mother-in-law moved to St. Louis to be closer to her grandchildren. She takes them overnight almost every Saturday. I know, we’re so lucky. In the early years of parenthood, we had no help nearby and would have absolutely killed for a night off. Also, a few times a year, we each take trips on our own. Sometimes, I’ll meet up with a friend in another city, and sometimes I’ll just book a hotel room by myself in town for a couple of days. Dave also does this, but almost always with people since he’s not as big of an introvert as me.

Do you feel like it’s a fair division of labor:
Because of cultural conditioning and just life circumstances, I don’t know that anyone has an exactly fair division of labor, right? There are certain things that Dave just doesn’t know exist because of where and how he grew up, so I’m the one who sees those coming (things like teacher gifts or mailman tips or that the kids might need a certain clothing item to fit in). We are doing the best we can, and we try to communicate when one or the other feels like they’re doing more and needs help.

Anything else you’d like to share?
To elaborate on the previous answer, we’re definitely a product of our upbringings. Dave was an only child with an upper-middle-class upbringing, while I grew up with two sisters in a blue-collar family. There was a lot of scarcity in my house, and my mom did most of the work at home in addition to her full-time job, so I’ve been guilty of keeping score because I don’t want to fall into the same patterns as my parents. Dave’s mom stayed home with him, and there was probably a lot of labor she performed that he was never aware of. We’re both very conscious of our balance now, and I will yell out “mental load” as a joke/but not a joke whenever I do something like add school events to our calendar.

Dacy and Dave shared a recent weekday in April.

5:00 a.m.

Dacy: I’ve had insomnia for close to 20 years and have tried everything. In November, I started using cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBT-I), and it’s been working really well for me. But something’s been going on the last couple of weeks, and I haven’t been sleeping well. I wake up at 5 a.m., read a bit, and go back to sleep until 6:20 a.m.

6:30 a.m.

Dacy: I usually try to get up before the kids to have a few minutes of calm to myself, something else that wasn’t possible when they were younger. I wake up remembering that I need to send notes to a client, so I get out of bed, make my coffee, and work on that.

7:00 a.m.

Dacy: I usually wake the kids up a little after 7 a.m. L. stayed home sick yesterday, and it affected how much I could get done. To my despair, he still sounds pretty sick, and he’s going to have to stay home again. Dave has work that he can’t cancel, so I’ll be the default parent again today. M. always showers immediately after he gets up, but I get breakfast for L. and go back to work while he eats.

Dave: I wake up and immediately make coffee. I’m deep into super fruity light-roast pour-overs right now 🤓. Seriously, I start looking forward to coffee the night before. I do the crossword and chat with the boys while I wake up. L. is still not feeling well, so he’ll be staying home for the second day in a row.

8:00 a.m.

Dacy: I was supposed to have a client call at 8:00 a.m. (I don’t usually meet people this early, but she’s in London), but I check email and see that she had to cancel. Dave and I have a back-and-forth about who’s taking the M. to the bus stop. I usually do it since I’m on morning duty, but because we thought I’d be working, Dave was going to do it. Then when my client canceled, he thought I was back to doing it, but it’s kind of chilly out and I make a pouty face, so he agrees to go.

Dave: I walk M. to the bus stop.

8:30 a.m.

Dacy: Having a sick kid home is another thing that is so much different now that they’re just a bit older. L. is more able to play independently now, but there still ends up being a lot of screen time. Dave’s still home, so I go back into my office. I call the dermatologist to schedule an appointment for myself, then start working on next week’s Substack posts.

Dave: I head down in the basement to warm up and go through my music for the rehearsal I have this morning as well as the week ahead.

9:30 a.m.

Dacy: Dave had to leave for work, and I’m getting distracted by L., so I put on Spongebob for him. I work a little more on my Substack pieces, but I also had a post go up this morning, so I spend some time checking in and responding to comments.

10:00 a.m.

Dacy: I start working on a graphic in Canva for a post about my April purchases.

Dave: Playing in the big orchestra is fun (and pays the bills), but getting to play chamber music with friends is really the best. This morning is super fun because I get to play Schubert’s Trout quintet with some of my favorite musicians and people. The double bass doesn’t have the extensive chamber music repertoire of the other string instruments, so playing something like this is a real treat, and I feel very grateful. Things go well, and we wrap up early so I’m able to grab coffee with my best friend (and first-call violist) on the way home.

10:30 a.m.

Dacy: At this point, L. is bored of Spongebob, so I take a break. I fix myself an early lunch of leftover pasta and make L. one of his favorite snacks, hard-boiled eggs and Trader Joe’s cornichons. I take a minute to try to check off another task from my to-do list and call an indoor soccer facility to rent a field for M.’s birthday. Later that day, when I tell M. about it, he tells me he’s decided he’d rather just have a sleepover with his friends. Thank goodness I didn’t have to pay up front for the rental!

11:00 a.m.

Dacy: For the last few days, L. has had a little fixation with paper planes, so we go outside and throw some around.

11:30 a.m.

Dacy: We put on more Spongebob, and I do some work planning out social media and creating more graphics in Canva. I have a couple of new subscribers at the founding level (yay!), and I add them to my online learning platform for the free courses that are a perk for founding members.

12:00 p.m.

Dacy: I have a client appointment. We’re working on editing her wardrobe. A lot of people are surprised that I do services like closet edits and client try-ons remotely, but it really works fine, and I’ve been doing it this way for five years now. Most of what she has no longer fits, but she’s not quite ready to get rid of all of it, so we decide on a plan for her to store most of it in her basement.

1:00 p.m.

Dacy: I go about 15 minutes over time with my client and then check email and Substack.

Dave: St. Louis is a great town, but the weather can be rough. Winters are cold, and summers are very hot, but right now, in early April, the air is cool and the sun is warm—my favorite. It’s such a gorgeous day that I resolve to spend as much of it outside as possible.

1:30 p.m.

Dacy: Dave gets home from his rehearsal and, knowing I’ve had a lot since L. has been home for two days, he offers to take him to the zoo. (Going to the zoo here isn’t a big production like it might be in other cities. It’s free and easy to drop in and out for a couple of hours.)

Dave: I get home, and despite having a cough, L. is game for the zoo. I pack snacks and tell him that under no circumstances are we getting anything from the gift shop, and we are off.

2:00 p.m.

Dacy: Even though I actually have some quiet to work now, my brain is pretty much done for at this point. I zone out on the couch, scroll some, and read a little. I’m currently reading Playground by Richard Powers.

Dave: The St. Louis Zoo is really one of the crown jewels of this town. Located in Forest Park (our Central Park), it is an amazing institution that I would visit regularly even if we didn’t have kids. Oh, and it’s free! However, I usually spring for a membership because I love supporting the zoo, and it allows us to ride the train and pet the stingrays as much as we want. Totally worth it. We have a truly wonderful time.

2:30 p.m.

Dacy: With CBT-I, I’m not supposed to nap or even be in my bed during the day, but I’m so tired. I move to bed for a nap.

3:30 p.m.

Dacy: I sleep for about an hour. While I was sleeping, some forest green boots I had ordered on eBay arrived. Luckily, they fit and are comfortable. I walk to the bus stop to meet M.

4:00 p.m.

Dacy: The kids usually have an hour of screen time when they get home from school. I’m still pretty groggy, so I just scroll TikTok while M. is downstairs playing video games.

5:00 p.m.

Dacy: I feed M. some leftover pasta and tidy up the kitchen.

5:30 p.m.

Dacy: M. has a doctor’s appointment at 6 p.m., so we get going.

Dave: Back home. L. wants to do some “experiments.” I direct him outside so he can make a mess while I cook dinner (pasta with meat sauce) and tidy the kitchen.

6:00 p.m.

Dave: While eating dinner I mention to L. that he needs a bath, and he completely melts down. He has been going through a very long phase where asking him to do anything can send him into a real fit. I feel like it’s been getting a little better, but we are still working on it. I get him excited about some catch with the Nerf football, and that moves him along. Whew.

6:30 p.m.

Dacy: On the way home from the doctor, we stop to pick up a chair for my bedroom that I found on Facebook Marketplace. As I mentioned, with CBT-I, you’re not supposed to be in bed during the day, but I need somewhere to relax that’s not the couch for when I get too overstimulated by my family.

7:00 p.m.

Dacy: We get home, and Dave has cooked dinner and has L. in a bath. I eat some dinner.

Dave: I finally get L. into the bath, and I finish up the crossword while he washes himself. He needs some direction, but I get him to handle most of it himself, so that’s progress.

7:30 p.m.

Dacy: Since Dave cooked, I start cleaning the kitchen. He and I talk about doing this piece, and I stop cleaning to make some notes and then end up also answering emails and responding to Substack comments.

Dave: L. wants me to play with him, but I tell him it’s time to entertain himself. He goes to the basement to play soccer without too much fuss.

8:00 p.m.

Dacy: Dave starts getting the kids ready for bed. L. is upset because he got in trouble, so Dave taps me in to get him out from under the bed. I threaten no reading if he doesn’t come out. We get into his bed and cuddle while I ask him a million questions about the stingrays at the zoo and his mood gradually shifts.

Dave: L. and M. have a seemingly innocuous interaction, but L. is fuming because I said he can’t rub his naked butt on his brother (or anyone else, for that matter). Also somewhere in the fray M. said he doesn’t care about L., which sets L. off even more. He is now hiding under his bed.

8:30 p.m.

Dacy: I finish cleaning while watching Below Deck with my Airpods in.

Dave: I read to L. every night at bedtime, and we are currently in the middle of The Hobbit, but I feel like pivoting to something lighter with more pictures is the way to go tonight. We read about koalas, and by the end, he seems much calmer. I give him a kiss and tuck him in.

I ask M. to go in and say he’s sorry and tell L. that he does care about him. He’s still working on more appropriate and caring ways to play with and talk to his little brother.

9:00 p.m.

Dacy: M. generally puts himself to bed around 9:00 p.m. but always listens to an audio book until he falls asleep. I should really shower, but I just don’t feel like all the effort. I go sit in my comfy new chair in my bedroom and scroll TikTok a bit more and check in on Substack. Someone in my chat has mentioned things they like about ThredUp, so of course I must go and see what I can find. I’m in a big shopping phase right now, but I don’t find anything good.

Dave: I contemplate seeing what’s going on in the world (filtered through Jon Stewart, Seth Meyers, and/or John Oliver, so I don’t end it all), but I honestly don’t want to know. I tidy the kitchen, run the dishwasher, head to bed, and fall asleep watching my favorite golf YouTubers from New Zealand.

9:30 p.m.

Dacy: I need a bedtime snack, so I get some cheese and crackers. As an aside, Dave and I sleep in separate rooms, so I’m able to do all this without bothering him. I’ve had such a hard time sleeping over the years that we started doing this so that I could attempt to sleep through the night without his snoring and movement waking me up.

10:00 p.m.

Dacy: The screen time limit on my phone shuts down most apps at 10:00 p.m., but one that I’ve excluded from the limit is the New York Times Games app. I usually do Strands, Connections, Wordle, and Spelling Bee, in that order.

10:30 p.m.

Dacy: If I could choose my bedtime, I’d be in bed much sooner, but part of CBT-I is that you compress your sleep time to avoid wakeups in the middle of the night, and it usually works. I’m sleeping through the night much more often than when I was going to bed at 9:00 p.m. I get into bed and read a bit until I fall asleep.

Thank you so much, Dacy and Dave! Be sure to check out Dacy’s newsletter!

Be sure to comment with kindness!

Random Extras:

• Ahead of my trip, I posted on Notes that I was looking for beach read suggestions. You all really came through! I treated myself to three new books (a real splurge for me): The Good Part by Sophie Cousens (recommended by Laura Fenton), Tom Lake by Ann Patchett (recommended by basically everyone, including Aja Frost and Alisha Ramos), and Ghosts by Dolly Alderton (Olivia Muenter suggested I read Alderton). I tore through The Good Part (totally derivative but also totally delightful); my mom read Ghosts (I finally wrangled it back from her and started it on the flight home); and Ken picked up Tom Lake because he finished the book he was reading mid-week. He’s loving Tom Lake and has told me it will be my new favorite book, so I can’t wait to read it next. I also have a list of books to borrow from the library once I finish these. I’ve been in such a reading rut, and it’s nice to feel like maybe I’m finally crawling out of it.

• This month, paid subscribers are automatically entered to win Abby Davisson’s book, Money and Love. I’m also throwing in a classic reusable bag from Baggu, because who doesn’t love a cute tote?!¹

• I’ve got a really good paid Home Economics coming out this Saturday. But I’m always looking for new entries! You can fill out the form here!

1. The sweepstakes is limited to readers within the U.S. It closes at 11:59 p.m. ET on April 30, 2025. To enter without upgrading to a paid subscription, please reply to this email by 11:59 p.m. ET on April 30, 2025, that you would like to be entered in the sweepstakes. If there are any further questions, simply respond to this email, and I will do my best to answer them.