I just love this series. My advice to her would be to transfer the credit card balance to a card with a 0% interest offer (or another low interest rate), and since it sounds like they have lots of friends with kids, ask them to trade babysitting nights, so you can both cut out the babysitting expense! Use that money saved to pay down the credit card faster.
I would: use savings to pay off credit cards and redirect those monthly payments back to savings to rebuild them; possibly figure out how to manage with one car and drop the old one while keeping the new one; check out frugalwoods blog archive for lots of great advice. I would cut the financial advisor too, I don’t see anything here you can’t figure out yourself.
Maybe your husband can make gifts for friends /family instead of buying them? Handmade ceramics are awesome and not cheap!
I second the babysitting sharing situation. I’ve started doing this with families through our daycare—we share a babysitter and sometimes go out together or separately. It cuts down the costs, the kids get to play together and the sitters have said in some ways it’s easier for them bc of that.
I’ve done with friends before! We do it in the afternoon, and so it really feels like you get your moneys worth with the babysitter, because they have to entertain the kids and not just watch TV while the kids sleep. Highly recommend!
Really appreciated this, but saying that her mom never had to pay for childcare because she was a stay-at-home mom blows my mind. She paid by giving up her own career (or potential career) and her own financial independence. It sounds like her mom took care of nieces and nephews in addition to her own kids. That is a huge sacrifice that can't be easily quantified.
So curious to hear from people who have a lot of money stress, in similar situations as this one, and yet make the choice to have another child. Not a judgement, it's just genuinely mind boggling to me... Is it because you envision things will get easier and this financial struggle will be overcome in your 40s/50s, or is it pure drive for parenthood (which I clearly do not possess)?
I had only a tiny percentage of the income this couple has, yet I purposely conceived two children. Babies aren't a luxury item. There is literally nothing in this world that I would rather have put my meager resources into than having a family. And now that they are grown up, I am even more thankful to have them. My kids are amazing young adults and I love them so much.
And anyway, I mostly stayed home so I didn't pay childcare except for a short time. I lived an ultra-thrifty life to make it possible to have kids -- I wasn't making very much money anyway so it wouldn't have paid for me to keep working while they were small.
If you don't want kids, of course you should not have them. But I would never have been happy and satisfied without kids. I'd have had them one way or another.
I'm in a more comfortable financial position than this particular couple, but not "rich" by any means, with two kids and considering a third. Knowing full well that it's expensive, yes, I do think it's a pure drive for parenthood and constructing the kind of family you'd love to have for yourself and your kids. Three kids is always how I pictured my family, and if I can do that within reason, I would like to. We'll see. This is definitely a position of privilege, but I just feel like when I'm on my deathbed, my life will have felt more full with more family rather than more money. Again, I am not strapped for cash and I do have family help, so it doesn't exactly answer your question. But yes to your last question - I think it's purely from the drive to make the family you've dreamed of, even if it makes you more poor, haha.
Only a speculation, but I'm guessing since both of them are in their mid/late 30s, they probably wanted to have another kid earlier rather than later due to the biological clock despite the money stress, which is common from my observation...
You only pay significantly for childcare for the first 5-6 years of the child's life. Most people see it as a worthy investment for the structure of their family.
One day I will wade into the cost of raising kids debate! It's kind of scary though (people have BIG feelings!) and really all comes down to individuals to make the right decisions for their families.
Really appreciate hearing from this family (and appreciate Lindsey for sharing a broad range of incomes and situations). Wishing you guys well on trying for a second baby and paying off the debt and finding more balance.
No advice but just solidarity with the cost of childcare. When my kids were younger we made the decision for my husband to stay at home because when we did the math he’d be making about $3 an hour and his job had irregular hours. We made it work on 1 income and sometimes had to carry a credit card balance to make ends meet. When he entered the workforce again it took him several years to find a decent paying job and if he were a woman out of the workforce for 7 years, I bet it would have taken longer. Looking back maybe that $3 an hour would have been worth it to keep him in the workforce but who knows. Anyway, again just wanted to say you’re not alone with frustration on child care cost!
Wow this calculation is so interesting Jessica. I feel like this would be a great basis for a larger research project - what is the average dollar value around foregoing income v cost of childcare and then break that down by gender and sector. Thanks for sharing!
I remember this period in my life vividly and how broke we were when we added a second so I am here to share that it did get better and faster than I imagined! We literally had negative money every month. Over the course of 5 years, many things changed… we were out of daycare, went down to 1 car, found higher paying jobs, etc. 10 years out, our kids have no recollection of ever being on the struggle bus! I wish I had spend less time worrying.
I certainly relate to having little kids and being so stressed about money. I will reiterate the advice that after kids get old enough to start public school instead of daycare, and you’ve grown in your career, it will feel like you have so much more money than you have now.
I only pay for one streamer at a time (and switch every few months). My family has voracious readers so we visit the library multiple times per week for free books and get audiobooks and ebooks on Libby app. If I really like a library book, I will do a year subscription to the author’s substack.
This is how we handled the childcare period: went down to one car because one of us was working from home, moved closer to childcare so we could walk/bike, moved close to a park so we didn’t have to pay for a gym or swim lessons (plus the walk/bike to school), and close to library. Because my spouse was commuting we lived close to public transit. We spent zero time in or money on vehicles which was both cost effective and increased quality of life.
Seeing financial transparency is so refreshing. I have a lot of empathy for feeling like you should be further along when you’re doing the best you can. Nearly all of my friends travel to Europe every year, are fully renovating their kitchens, etc. and my husband and I not in the same position. Cliche, but true: Comparison is truly the thief of joy! Doing the best with what you have is very admirable and you should be proud of the things you’ve accomplished! Also, don’t feel pressure to buy a house just to own. They are expensive to furnish and maintain and there’s no shame in renting.
I started using YNAB a few years ago to manage my family’s budget and it changed my life! It helps you better understand yourself, your spending habits, and to prioritize your goals when you can see exactly where your money is going each month.
I really love reading all these different financial situations. I live in London and do consider how lucky we are with healthcare/paid leave etc especially reading about these situations.
We lived in San Fran for a while when my son was little and I was so shocked at the costs/holiday allowance/no net to catch you.
Childcare (especially wraparound care) is expensive in England but we get at least 15 free hours a week and also shared parental paid leave of a year when your baby is born so you can each take 6 months off if you want.
Sometimes short term pain for the long term gain of having the family you want is what you have to do.
The biggest raise I ever got was when my youngest (of 2) went to Kindergarten, and I stopped paying for full-time preschool. Eventually, some of that cost came back in the form of extracurricular activities, but it was so nice to stop having that bill and breathe for a minute.
I also think this is another example why free programs like 3K and pre-K in NYC and other cities are so vital to families. Five years is a long time to wait to get access to free education/childcare.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. Since her kid is 3 1/2, is she not eligible for public 3K or pre-K soon? Do public preschools not exist outside of NYC?
Public preschool varies significantly by state and then even by district. The ones you hear about in the news (the big cities) tend to be among the best, sometimes it’s nonexistent. And when there is public preK, it’s often 3 hours per day… we need a massive rethinking of how we support families in this country.
Even the way she talks about it shows it feels like an individual burden than the societal challenge it is :-/
I’m also in Kentucky. Public preschool is only available available for four-year-olds whose family income is no more than 160% of the poverty line. All three and four-year-olds who have specific disabilities also qualify regardless of income.
The last I checked, the poverty line in KY for a family of three is ~$25k which means you would have to be making no more than ~$33k as a family of three to qualify.
I’d love to know more about preschool programs in other states and cities.
In VA where I am it’s also income dependent with exceptions for specific disabilities. Head Start and Virginia Preschool Initiative are the main two programs. We did not qualify for any of them.
It’s so encouraging to read comments like these. We are 6 months out from this shift from daycare to public school and I keep wondering if it will really even feel like a jump but it seems like it does. Deep breath initiated 😮💨 almost there 🚂
Just a note to say that they should be really proud of all they've done! Paying off any debt while saving is a huge win, especially in a country that does not provide universal childcare, health care, or support for families.
How about the library for audiobooks, children hours( usually a story or craft) audiobooks through the library. Also do the parents trade kids clothes, books, toys?
I really appreciate hearing their story. I think they’re doing great with their overall savings.
Two things popped into my mind: The first is that they are overpaying for car maintenance. A oil change/service should run no more than $150 to $200 for an oil change and a basic look at. That really only needs to be done twice a year, and not three. So they could probably save about 400 a year on car service. In California I’ve never paid more than $150 for a vehicle to have an oil change service.
The second thing I can think of is to pay that first credit card off immediately with saving since the interest rate is so high. Having one less credit card to think about will reduce their stress somewhat.
$1,000 is prob good for car maintenance but what car gets an oil change 3x a year for $200 a pop!? The work commute is 2 miles. Something is not adding up or you're getting taken for a ride by a auto shop
I love this series and hear you on the stress of childcare. The money shame (especially with CC debt) is so real. I appreciate the transparency and everyone sharing resources / advice for what has worked for them. Talking about money makes it feel so much less overwhelming.
I just love this series. My advice to her would be to transfer the credit card balance to a card with a 0% interest offer (or another low interest rate), and since it sounds like they have lots of friends with kids, ask them to trade babysitting nights, so you can both cut out the babysitting expense! Use that money saved to pay down the credit card faster.
I would: use savings to pay off credit cards and redirect those monthly payments back to savings to rebuild them; possibly figure out how to manage with one car and drop the old one while keeping the new one; check out frugalwoods blog archive for lots of great advice. I would cut the financial advisor too, I don’t see anything here you can’t figure out yourself.
Maybe your husband can make gifts for friends /family instead of buying them? Handmade ceramics are awesome and not cheap!
Best of luck.
I second the babysitting sharing situation. I’ve started doing this with families through our daycare—we share a babysitter and sometimes go out together or separately. It cuts down the costs, the kids get to play together and the sitters have said in some ways it’s easier for them bc of that.
I’ve done with friends before! We do it in the afternoon, and so it really feels like you get your moneys worth with the babysitter, because they have to entertain the kids and not just watch TV while the kids sleep. Highly recommend!
Yessss! This. We are moving soon and sharing a daytime slot so we can pack in relative peace without feeling negligent.
Really appreciated this, but saying that her mom never had to pay for childcare because she was a stay-at-home mom blows my mind. She paid by giving up her own career (or potential career) and her own financial independence. It sounds like her mom took care of nieces and nephews in addition to her own kids. That is a huge sacrifice that can't be easily quantified.
Tricia, I appreciate that POV! You're right that it's a huge sacrifice!
So curious to hear from people who have a lot of money stress, in similar situations as this one, and yet make the choice to have another child. Not a judgement, it's just genuinely mind boggling to me... Is it because you envision things will get easier and this financial struggle will be overcome in your 40s/50s, or is it pure drive for parenthood (which I clearly do not possess)?
I had only a tiny percentage of the income this couple has, yet I purposely conceived two children. Babies aren't a luxury item. There is literally nothing in this world that I would rather have put my meager resources into than having a family. And now that they are grown up, I am even more thankful to have them. My kids are amazing young adults and I love them so much.
And anyway, I mostly stayed home so I didn't pay childcare except for a short time. I lived an ultra-thrifty life to make it possible to have kids -- I wasn't making very much money anyway so it wouldn't have paid for me to keep working while they were small.
If you don't want kids, of course you should not have them. But I would never have been happy and satisfied without kids. I'd have had them one way or another.
I'm in a more comfortable financial position than this particular couple, but not "rich" by any means, with two kids and considering a third. Knowing full well that it's expensive, yes, I do think it's a pure drive for parenthood and constructing the kind of family you'd love to have for yourself and your kids. Three kids is always how I pictured my family, and if I can do that within reason, I would like to. We'll see. This is definitely a position of privilege, but I just feel like when I'm on my deathbed, my life will have felt more full with more family rather than more money. Again, I am not strapped for cash and I do have family help, so it doesn't exactly answer your question. But yes to your last question - I think it's purely from the drive to make the family you've dreamed of, even if it makes you more poor, haha.
Only a speculation, but I'm guessing since both of them are in their mid/late 30s, they probably wanted to have another kid earlier rather than later due to the biological clock despite the money stress, which is common from my observation...
Not to mention the whole “country collapsing around them as we speak” thing
You only pay significantly for childcare for the first 5-6 years of the child's life. Most people see it as a worthy investment for the structure of their family.
One day I will wade into the cost of raising kids debate! It's kind of scary though (people have BIG feelings!) and really all comes down to individuals to make the right decisions for their families.
I wrote about the second kid question almost a year ago and I am no closer to knowing my answer:
https://copperoranges.substack.com/p/the-question
Ooh thanks for sharing! I will read!!
I’m asking the first kid question and the $$$ is a massive part of my questioning!
Really appreciate hearing from this family (and appreciate Lindsey for sharing a broad range of incomes and situations). Wishing you guys well on trying for a second baby and paying off the debt and finding more balance.
Thanks, Rachel!
No advice but just solidarity with the cost of childcare. When my kids were younger we made the decision for my husband to stay at home because when we did the math he’d be making about $3 an hour and his job had irregular hours. We made it work on 1 income and sometimes had to carry a credit card balance to make ends meet. When he entered the workforce again it took him several years to find a decent paying job and if he were a woman out of the workforce for 7 years, I bet it would have taken longer. Looking back maybe that $3 an hour would have been worth it to keep him in the workforce but who knows. Anyway, again just wanted to say you’re not alone with frustration on child care cost!
Thanks for sharing this, Jessica!
Wow this calculation is so interesting Jessica. I feel like this would be a great basis for a larger research project - what is the average dollar value around foregoing income v cost of childcare and then break that down by gender and sector. Thanks for sharing!
I remember this period in my life vividly and how broke we were when we added a second so I am here to share that it did get better and faster than I imagined! We literally had negative money every month. Over the course of 5 years, many things changed… we were out of daycare, went down to 1 car, found higher paying jobs, etc. 10 years out, our kids have no recollection of ever being on the struggle bus! I wish I had spend less time worrying.
I certainly relate to having little kids and being so stressed about money. I will reiterate the advice that after kids get old enough to start public school instead of daycare, and you’ve grown in your career, it will feel like you have so much more money than you have now.
I only pay for one streamer at a time (and switch every few months). My family has voracious readers so we visit the library multiple times per week for free books and get audiobooks and ebooks on Libby app. If I really like a library book, I will do a year subscription to the author’s substack.
This is how we handled the childcare period: went down to one car because one of us was working from home, moved closer to childcare so we could walk/bike, moved close to a park so we didn’t have to pay for a gym or swim lessons (plus the walk/bike to school), and close to library. Because my spouse was commuting we lived close to public transit. We spent zero time in or money on vehicles which was both cost effective and increased quality of life.
Seeing financial transparency is so refreshing. I have a lot of empathy for feeling like you should be further along when you’re doing the best you can. Nearly all of my friends travel to Europe every year, are fully renovating their kitchens, etc. and my husband and I not in the same position. Cliche, but true: Comparison is truly the thief of joy! Doing the best with what you have is very admirable and you should be proud of the things you’ve accomplished! Also, don’t feel pressure to buy a house just to own. They are expensive to furnish and maintain and there’s no shame in renting.
I started using YNAB a few years ago to manage my family’s budget and it changed my life! It helps you better understand yourself, your spending habits, and to prioritize your goals when you can see exactly where your money is going each month.
I really love reading all these different financial situations. I live in London and do consider how lucky we are with healthcare/paid leave etc especially reading about these situations.
We lived in San Fran for a while when my son was little and I was so shocked at the costs/holiday allowance/no net to catch you.
Childcare (especially wraparound care) is expensive in England but we get at least 15 free hours a week and also shared parental paid leave of a year when your baby is born so you can each take 6 months off if you want.
Sometimes short term pain for the long term gain of having the family you want is what you have to do.
Good luck to you
The biggest raise I ever got was when my youngest (of 2) went to Kindergarten, and I stopped paying for full-time preschool. Eventually, some of that cost came back in the form of extracurricular activities, but it was so nice to stop having that bill and breathe for a minute.
I also think this is another example why free programs like 3K and pre-K in NYC and other cities are so vital to families. Five years is a long time to wait to get access to free education/childcare.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. Since her kid is 3 1/2, is she not eligible for public 3K or pre-K soon? Do public preschools not exist outside of NYC?
I'm not sure! It's a good question!
Public preschool varies significantly by state and then even by district. The ones you hear about in the news (the big cities) tend to be among the best, sometimes it’s nonexistent. And when there is public preK, it’s often 3 hours per day… we need a massive rethinking of how we support families in this country.
Even the way she talks about it shows it feels like an individual burden than the societal challenge it is :-/
I’m also in Kentucky. Public preschool is only available available for four-year-olds whose family income is no more than 160% of the poverty line. All three and four-year-olds who have specific disabilities also qualify regardless of income.
The last I checked, the poverty line in KY for a family of three is ~$25k which means you would have to be making no more than ~$33k as a family of three to qualify.
I’d love to know more about preschool programs in other states and cities.
In VA where I am it’s also income dependent with exceptions for specific disabilities. Head Start and Virginia Preschool Initiative are the main two programs. We did not qualify for any of them.
It’s so encouraging to read comments like these. We are 6 months out from this shift from daycare to public school and I keep wondering if it will really even feel like a jump but it seems like it does. Deep breath initiated 😮💨 almost there 🚂
I so admire folks sharing, especially so honestly. It makes me feel not alone!
Love to hear that, Madeline!
Just a note to say that they should be really proud of all they've done! Paying off any debt while saving is a huge win, especially in a country that does not provide universal childcare, health care, or support for families.
Agree with you, Marlena!
100% 💛💛
How about the library for audiobooks, children hours( usually a story or craft) audiobooks through the library. Also do the parents trade kids clothes, books, toys?
Libby is the best for free audiobooks!
Thinking the same. I love the library for physical books and audio and digital!
And secret tip, if you don't do a wifi transfer to get your books on an ebook, you can have them longer than 3 weeks! ;)
At least for digital books.
I really appreciate hearing their story. I think they’re doing great with their overall savings.
Two things popped into my mind: The first is that they are overpaying for car maintenance. A oil change/service should run no more than $150 to $200 for an oil change and a basic look at. That really only needs to be done twice a year, and not three. So they could probably save about 400 a year on car service. In California I’ve never paid more than $150 for a vehicle to have an oil change service.
The second thing I can think of is to pay that first credit card off immediately with saving since the interest rate is so high. Having one less credit card to think about will reduce their stress somewhat.
I’m really enjoying the series. Keep it up!
$1,000 is prob good for car maintenance but what car gets an oil change 3x a year for $200 a pop!? The work commute is 2 miles. Something is not adding up or you're getting taken for a ride by a auto shop
Especially in Louisville! I live in a nearby city that is larger than Lville and am paying no more than $75 or 80 for an oil change.
I was thinking the same, when did an oil change become $200? That seems like a lot of money for an oil change.
I love this series and hear you on the stress of childcare. The money shame (especially with CC debt) is so real. I appreciate the transparency and everyone sharing resources / advice for what has worked for them. Talking about money makes it feel so much less overwhelming.