Thank you for this story. I think it's so interesting that everyone (including several people in the comments) disbelieves that this is how much early childcare costs today. The idea that parents should be exploring "alternatives" (underpaid babysitters? unlicensed in-home daycares?) makes me want to scream.
I feel like they are the same people who, when something happens in an unlicensed daycare setting, blame the parent ( really, let's be honest blame the mother) for 'cutting corners' on daycare costs ( i.e. are their kids not worth the best!!)
I don’t think it’s disbelief, I think it’s pointing out that there is a range of costs for services like daycare/childcare and yes, there are a lot of variables within those services (quality, coverage, location etc). You have to believe though, that not everyone in Philly is paying 40k/yr per child, right?
Philadelphian parent here who works in different preschools. We are not all paying $40K/yr per child. There is a huge range of quality daycare/preschool options in the city/surrounding suburbs. I am guessing that they are not from the are and have been told to stay in the fancier sections of the city for "safety".
Philadelphia parent here who lives in center city. Third kid is on daycare and we’ve never paid anywhere close to $40k per kid per year. I wonder if phila Dave is in a wealthy suburb like the Main Line. Though it is definitely possible to pay $40k per kid, we don’t and searched around a bunch bc we couldn’t afford to. We found our daycare by talking to lots of parents at the playground — never would have found it otherwise and it is a rare gem that is pay when you go - not one set rate per month. If your kid is sick or you’re away, you don’t pay. It feels as close as we can get to childcare for the people by the people who actually get it.
Thank you for writing this! It’s a story I think about daily and I feel like we’re screaming from the mountain tops about how much it costs and no one is listening. Childcare is our second highest expense each month after our mortgage payment. My kid goes to a good school but it’s nothing exceptional. It’s just wild because as parents we’re told that we’ll have 18 years to save for our child’s education when in actuality we’re paying the cost of college tuition right out the gate for daycare. State colleges in my area are roughly the same price as childcare centers.
Dave from Philly aside, I have a lot to say about this. I live in an area where the cost of living has very quickly outpaced the median income level (mostly rural that saw a huge boom in population in the last 5 years). The cost of housing/care/services has doubled but pay has not, nor has the availability of these resources. The daycare my kids started at 7 years ago has increased by $140 per week (52%). There are 3 daycares in my town and none of them have openings right now. You have to take what you can get in many situations, and sometimes that means paying more. Yes, rural/in home daycares are often less expensive. But when people flippantly say there are cheaper options for care, you have to consider other things- Do I feel safe to leave my child here? Commute time; how long does it take to get from my house/from daycare to work and vice versa and can their hours accommodate that? I can't drive 30 minutes in the opposite direction with an already 35 minute commute to take my child to a daycare that opens at 7 and closes at 5, just so I can save $50 a week.
The reality of childcare in the US is very grim and so many people put the blame on parents instead of the real problem (abysmal governmental policy)
I wanted to talk about childcare deserts like where you live, but the piece was already too long. In NYC, things are expensive, but we have a lot of good options. It's not like that everywhere.
I just want to say, thank you thank you thank you for this post. You're making so many hardworking parents feel seen. Finances post-kid(s) are much more complicated and dynamic and we must consider our finances in a holistic way - which I think the advisor you spoke with did. I despise Ramsey's financial advice - he shames hardworking folks and like you said, so incredibly out of touch. There was a similar moment on the Joe Rogan show you and your subscribers may recall. Just a bunch of bros and boomers shouting out judgements that are anything but helpful. Again, thank you for shining a light on this!
I haven't read all the comments yet, so someone might have had the same thoughts. As someone who was a child in f. USSR and whose kid was a recipient of the socialist system daycare, and then - partook from the pre-K in the US, I have a pretty good idea of both systems.
First: all these wonderful government money spent on free childcare is not free: they come from enormous taxes spread on all population, regardless if one is young, old or childless. Second: the quality of the supposedly equal daycare varied/ varies greatly. If a kindergarten is subsidized by a trade union, or a military base (for their staff), etc - they are terrific, otherwise - horrible, as everything that stems from socialist "equity" - it is an equity in poverty and mediocrity. Kind of the same difference as between a community center daycare and a Montessori center - or between a poorly-performing public school and a private one costing $40K +/year. To understand the reality of Danish system, please read the 1st-person account by a Dane: https://world.hey.com/dhh/the-reality-of-the-danish-fairytale-78069fbf.
Second: demands to government to increase spending - this time on childcare - will lead only to more taxes; this is how the government is conditioned to solve any problems. They are not going to cut something else and re-direct the funds; no - they will tax you more. Consider the effect it will have on our national debt - which has grown exponentially in the last 10 yrs and is now in the unimaginable trillions.
The solution, if only a partial one, I believe, is freeing those of taxpayers who pays for childcare and private schools, from paying portion of their taxes allocated to public schools. Kind of like voucher system - which proved very effective in terms of quality of care and education even in very poor, underfunded school districts. You would be amazed to learn how much you're paying towards local public schools, even if you're not using them for your kids. F.i., I know in Bergen Cty, NJ, 85-90% of local property taxes are directed towards their K-to-H.S. public system!
That's very civic-minded of you. What holds you from providing personal assistance to a concrete parent (like a P2P tax, so to say)?As opposed to forcing yet another tax on other people who are already struggling
As someone who grew up poor in NYC and saw the sacrifices that my parents made to raise us, I was always intensely conscious of the financial costs of having a family. So I'm always a little surprised when people seem so surprised.
If you're going to have children, raise them yourself. There. Financial problem solved if you live within the means that one working parent can provide for. This business of shopping your children out to other people to raise from the moment they are born until they leave home is a big part of the problem with the mental health of many Americans. Ok. I'm ready, everybody. I have my face shield on and full body protective clothing. You can start lobbing rotten vegetables and outraged comments now.
The idea that if your child is not tied to you 24/7 you are not the one raising them is so harmful to kids. Daycare was such a gift for my only child. He learned to socialize with his peers. He made friendships that have stayed with him even now that they are all in different schools (he's 10 now). We have a large friend community that came about through daycare. And he got to learn from trained professionals. Covid remote school taught us real quick how unqualified we were to handle his learning.
yeah, I think so much of these demands for 'parents' (read: women) to 'just stay home' is misogyny masquerading as "what about the children!" as is so often the case.
I don't think I can edit my comment but I also just wanted to add, I think it's so yucky that we also devalue the relationships that children build with other kids and with daycare providers. I've known so many families who've had such positive experiences there, and not all parents want to be home with their kids full time, that doesn't make them a bad parent
hi, mental health professional here with a lot of experience working with kids and families. I have to admit I really bristled when I read your comment, but in the interest of trying to have a respectful dialogue, I really want to know: how are people affording the solution that you've proposed? what makes you think that this is a better approach for children's mental health? as far as I know, the reality is that even people who would like to be able to stay home with their children are often financially unable to do so for a variety of reasons. also, despite these barriers, parents are actually spending more time with their kids and they did in the past, there's a ton of research about this. so, I don't think that your argument that it would be better for children for them to be home with their parents is necessarily true either. but my original point stands, even if we were to agree that it was better, how are we going to make that happen for people if we don't have some way of making it financially viable?
Thank you for this. I, too, bristled. Such a generalization and pipe dream.
Before the original poster asks why people don’t live within their means, let me tell you that I am almost 40, have worked full time since I was 20 to have no debt; drive a 14 yr old car; shop exclusively at Aldi; think about every purchase; live well within our means and for my husband and I (both well educated), this would never work in the three states we have lived. We would never be able to save for a house emergency or our retirement on one income. Period. Daycare is and continues to be double our mortgage payment.
Thank you for not giving me too much hate. It’s about priorities– either you choose to parent your children and believe that is the best way to bring them up and find a way to do it so their needs are provided with one working parent, or you prefer to live in areas that are too expensive or choose a lifestyle that is beyond your means, or the health and well-being of your children are secondary to materialism. This isn’t a simple decision, and I’ll never claim that it is. Both husband and wife must be in complete agreement on this decision, preferably decided before marriage.
Parents who have children and then abandon them to day care, afterschool programs and summer camps, all of which are a financial drain, are not prioritizing their children or parenting. There also seems to be a belief that to be good parents requires lavishing them with material things and internet connected devices and enrolled in 4 or 5 extracurricular activities. You get what you pay for and often the return on investment is a child/children busied into depression and anxiety. Another motivation for two parents working is having the means to put their children through college, an over-priced ivy if that’s their priority, with the single-minded idea that a college education is the only means to their children’s eventual success. Maybe that was true several decades ago, but it no longer is.
I’m not just theorizing. I was a full-time stay-at-home mom until my son entered kindergarten, and after he started school, I worked part time hours so that I could be at home when he got home from school. We were a one-income family for 5 years, with no savings and I did not work full time until my son entered high school and had his own part time job afterschool. He wasn’t a latchkey kid. Our annual income was at lower middleclass level for most of those years. I learned frugality for survival’s sake. I spent many hours worrying how we could afford college (this was the late 80’s) but it turned out my son earned his own way into college and a post graduate PHD with his grades and grants and scholarships. He finished his STEM PHD at Notre Dame with no student loan debt. He’s married with 2 children and was a stay-at-home dad for my grands until they started school. They earn an upper middle-class income, but live well beneath their means without sacrificing extras. My grands have never been in daycare, and both my son and d-i-l are very engaged in my grandkids lives.
Responsible people know that there is a trade-off to everything. What those tradeoffs are will be different for everyone.
I completely disagree with all of this, Humdeedee. As the daughter of 2 working parents, I spent a lot of time in daycare and after-school care and summer camps. I wasn't "busied into depression and anxiety." I find that time I spent away from my parents (who I'm incredibly close to) made me resilient and independent. My parents are wonderful role models, and I'm lucky they live close and play a big part in my kid's life.
I'm very glad your family found a way to make it work with one parent staying home. But what works for you doesn't work for everyone. You make a lot of unfair assumptions about working parents and paint them in a really negative light. It doesn't help further this conversation.
Please re-read my comment and understand that I absolutely live within my means and prioritize my children. I don’t lavish my kids with extra-curriculars and devices, we are outside/at the library/at parks. All things that are free. We also eat at home and pack our lunches.
I am an incredibly responsible person, like most, who know that living off one income is not the norm or sustainable. Take a look at what you just wrote - your kid went to college for (sounds like?) free. If he didn’t, would he have taken out loans at Notre Dame and been in the same boat as most ppl in his generation? Would you give him the same advice that he shouldn’t work/shouldn’t send his kids to daycare to pay off his loans? Genuinely trying to be kind to show you the “system” doesn’t support stay at home parents or one income households.
She also mentions that she did this in the late 80s... the world has drastically changed in that time. The cost of college, real estate etc. is night and day different
Incredibly respectfully -- the workforce is 50% women. Our economy cannot handle more stay at home parents. Also women should be able to choose a career. I absolutely love being a mom to my two young kids, and have made decisions where I can spend more time with them, but I'm not serving myself or my family by taking time out of the workforce in this economy.
As the daughter of working parents, I am incredibly close with them. I learned a ton of skills growing up being involved in activities that help me in my everyday life today. I forged friendships and learned the importance of community. Your experience is valid -- but it's not something that is easily extrapolated to the entire country.
There is something to be said that the US is behind on subsidized child care compared to the rest of the world. Our birth rate is falling fast because it's just not financially feasible for people to have children.
I feel incredibly lucky that my grandparents, some of whom were STAP, have listened to what my family's current situation is and how it's changed from their own 40 years ago. They are now advocates for better family policies because they see how hard it is for their grandchildren to raise their young families.
I also disagree with your thinking, which is really a 1960s-1980s mentality. Wonderful for your family that your choices worked out beautifully. But what makes this country great is that people get to make their own choices. To say that daycare is bad or babysitters/nannies are bad and hurtful to children is sweepingly wrong. My sister chose to stay at home because she didn't make enough to pay for childcare for 3 kids....and then got into enormous credit card debt (NOT for vacations but for clothes, car repairs, etc) that created more stress than any family needed and contributed in some part to their divorce, which I think all would agree is not good for kids. My children went to daycares/had sitters/summer camps, both of my children have master's degrees with no debt, are both in stable, loving relationships, with jobs they find fulfilling. There is really no right or wrong way to do it, it's what you choose as a family.
I'm a bit baffled by the entire conversation. The cost of raising children is no secret, regardless of where you live. I don't get why so many (here, at least) seem to view it differently from so many other life choices. You get the education you need and can afford. You buy a house if can afford it; you buy a car if you need one, and then you buy the one you can afford; you buy the clothes you can afford; you buy the food you can afford. But kids? Just have them and figure it out later?
I'm not trying to be obtuse, cantankerous or argumentative - I genuinely fail to understand. My friends with children shake their heads and wryly marvel at the reality of the expense, as one might expect when anyone is confronted with the cold hard reality of something we previously understood only in theory, but they don't seem surprised or victimized by it, and they're prepared and equipped to make the tradeoffs they know need to be made.
I'm not living entirely in a bubble. I understand that some have children they hadn't planned; I understand that some have children at a point in their life when they're not equipped to plan thoughtfully and make mature decisions. I get that not everyone enjoys certain privileges of education, support or even basic functionality, and that a certain percentage of people become parents under less than ideal circumstances. I'm not talking about those situations. What I'm not understanding is mature, able-bodied, functional, educated, gainfully employed, (otherwise) financially stable middle and upper-middle class young people *complaining* about a perfectly reasonable and easily-anticipated tradeoff to an entirely discretionary life choice? Honestly, please help me understand.
Many people aren't having children because they've crunched the numbers. Also financial literacy (like many other things like health literary) is at an all time low, so even if you have children, truly understanding the cost you'll be confronted with is not always a given. Also, many daycares don't post their fees publicly and drive up costs every year. As someone who can afford 800/week in childcare with two children in a low cost of living area, I'm not sure how many can. My husband and I both make over 6 figures but many don't, I'm not sure how they afford to work and have daycare. Or the loss work on having the child out sick form daycare approximately 5-10% of the time.
Yes, as someone who's seen his grocery bill jump about 30% over the last couple of years, I totally understand the idea of prices creeping up faster than expectations, and empathize with the idea of struggling to try to figure it out. I get somewhat less sympathetic when complaints about the cost of day care sometimes seem to suggest resentment that "the help" expects to be paid a respectable (not merely "livable") wage, or when the view is taken that my taxes should somehow subsidize the life choices of perfectly able and relatively privileged citizens.
Also not to pile on, many people are waiting later to afford kids, and aging grandparents are willing but physically unable to care for growing children. So many new parents think they'll have "free" childcare with grandparents and are shocked to find Gigi unable to offer quality care for their kids and have to use daycare unexpectedly and did not budget for it
My husband and I both WANT a career, although I’m assuming that you really mean the mother should stay home and care for the children. Antiquated and mostly unhelpful.
What was startling to me when my oldest hit kindergarten is that we would still be paying so much for childcare. For after care, because school gets out at 2:15!!, for summer camps, for the myriad of weeklong breaks during the school year. Yes, it's less than daycare but it's still significant.
And for those saying they are paying too much- in my experience daycare has been impossible to find. I was on waiting lists for 10 daycares when I was 3 months pregnant and wasn't able to get in anywhere until my son was 5 months old. And even then, only 1 school was available. Sometimes you just have to go where there is a spot.
LOL, don't get me started on all the random days off. My kid hasn't had a full week of school the entire month of Feb. b/c of all the breaks (and then a snow day). If you need backup camp for those random days, it's easily $130+ a day.
Oof! This was so helpful to read, thank you. My husband’s currently in the third year of a 5-6 year PhD program — which makes me, for the time being, the primary breadwinner. Our son will be 2 in the fall, and we’re starting to think about and plan for a second. But the #1 stressor for me has been wrapping my mind around how/if we can afford another $25k/year in daycare expenses! I’m saving as much as I can in preparation (which is hard enough already!), but just putting the idea of a loan on the table is actually very liberating.
Yes, no one really talks about saving for these costs, but it can really be necessary. I definitely recommend speaking to a financial advisor before you do take out a loan b/c they can offer good advice!
No advice - just wanted to say it is so hard! My husband was getting his PHD when I gave birth to our oldest and I actually had an older coworker tell me he thought it was irresponsible that my husband finish his degree instead of dropping out since we had a newborn (!!!!)
Just wanted to add - childcare was so expensive that my husband ended up caring for our daughter every other day (and working on his dissertation nights/weekends) while I worked from home the alternating days to care for her while working. This was pre-pandemic in the aftermath of the recession. I worked at an ad agency for fortune 100 clients, my husband was getting a PHD in engineering at an Ivy League. We were youngish (28), but insanely privileged (good jobs, minimal college debt, white) and yet it felt like there was so much shame in having a child when we did. There is this insane tightrope you have to walk of having high paying jobs, no debt, and perfect timing re: pregnancy and then you can just barely eek by having a child. Absolutely no wiggle room or it’s all shame (my personal experience)
Rent & Childcare were my biggest expenses until my daughter was able to start at a public kindergarten. Now our biggest expenses are Rent & Child-Related Activities :). I am also a husband who is currently owning summer camp planning. After I lost my job last May (and have since decided to remain job-less) part of the agreement I came to with my wife was that I pick up all the child care and activity planning. I vastly underestimated how much time this stuff takes! I had to infiltrate all the mom facebook groups to get access to all the good mom only spreadsheets of summer camps!
Ah! So glad to meet a dad who plans for camp! I will say, there's a bit of a motherhood mafia (cabal? coven?) that does hold all the secrets to camp planning. It might be more equal if we shared that info more freely.
I think it's a little out there, but I only know from my own experience. We currently pay $20,400 per year per child for a daycare that is five-star rated (per the state rating & inspection system). I don't think it's anything fancy or upper-echelon. Middle of the road. That said, the $20,400 covers each child for the full 12 months of the year, except the obvious national holidays and two extra staff holidays, and also covers 7am to 6pm daycare hours. $25k per year is a lot more, but to also have to pay extra for a nanny when this daycare is closed, plus pay extra for before and after hours care is excessive. There have to be other options. It's hard when kids adjust to a place, make friends, and trust is established. All in all, it's a five year problem per child that you have to trudge and slog through and this person had a doctor's salary at the end of the tunnel, others don't. You know what's best for your kids, but from a financial perspective I would at least consider the child care alternatives before borrowing money for a daycare that isn't meeting all of my needs. It's also important to note that child care costs don't completely end with daycare. While it can be significantly less than daycare was, there are camps/track-outs, sports, and even before & after care for school systems short/bad hours for working parents.
I live in the MIDDLE OF MISSOURI and we have two young children (3) and (1). We expect to pay close to $36K on childcare this year. I also work four days a week now, because we couldn’t find care on Fridays for my youngest. These are the realities! I also have an understanding employer and flex as appropriate— the only way to survive this. Thanks for writing this! I
I would highly recommend the book the Nordic Theory of Everything by Anu Partanen, who delves into the differences between American and Scandivanian nations, with a whole chapter talking about childcare cost. I know it doesn't quite help in this situation where people are looking for solutions now to childcare problems in the US, but here's hoping for any parent out there that they can find the help they need.
As a Canadian, we now get 12-18 months of 55% of our salary for parental leave (half of that time could be either given to the mom or dad). Every time I read a story about Americans and their lack of parental leave always floors me how uncaring the system is to families. Going back to work after only 2-3 months is unthinkable, and I can't imagine the stress. We have no close family members to care for our daughter, but luckily I work from home and we've worked out a system of pick up and drop off from school now. Our govt in Quebec subsidizes a lot for schools and daycares (subsidized daycares are $8 CAD/day, ours went to a private one was which was $77CAD/day), so summer camps are relatively affordable by comparison ($100 CAD/week), but we also live in a smaller town. We pay higher taxes for sure, but we've never gone into heavy debt due to childcare. QC has been a forerunner in affordable daycare in Canada, but it does comes at a price - we have a crippling shortage of daycare teachers and teachers in general due to poor working conditions. Some are on waitlists for years to get into any kind of daycare (public or private), so it's not all rose-colored glasses here either. There are now 4yr old kindergarten classes because daycares simply can't accommodate more children for that long. I've never had a subsidized daycare, had a babysitter for one night and there rest of the time, it was just me staying at home, or initially I worked at restaurant and used my evening shifts to switch with my husband for about year until COVID hit.
If Americans hope for a better future, it's essential to vote for representatives who will fight for your interests. Here's hoping at least for a few states who can get their act together to work in the interest of current and future parents.
I would add that we should also be advocating for universal Prek. I live in Washington DC and paid $20,000/year per child for daycare (very middle of the road, but was for 12 months of the year. I've actually never heard of a daycare closing for the summer like Philly Dave says). However, it's only 2-3 years as full day preschool starts at age 3 in DC and is a part of the public school system. Beginning at age 3 our only expense was after care at school from 4-6pm AND the early childhood programs as a part of the universal PreK system are fabulous.
In NYC, it's pretty common for pre-schools with 2s and 3s programs to close during the summer months, or offer different kinds of care at a different price.
And yes, 100% to pre-K and 3-K. This should be universal. Unfortunately, in NYC, 3k is on the budget chopping block.
My town (Watertown, MA) just announced a free pre-K program starting this fall and… when I tell you, I cheered! Because my son was born in September, he won’t actually be able to start until he’s 5 😅 but maybe they’ll expand it by then.
K. I haven’t finished yet because I had to stop and comment on the Dave Ramsey advice. I am screaming with laughter that these were thoughts in his head that he then let filter through to spoken word. Not one of those filters thought “hmmm is this reasonable or applicable to most humans?” Nope just from thought to statement in a flash. (Heading back in to read the rest…)
I think taking out a loan to pay for childcare is a terrible idea. What happens if something derails his wife’s career plans like an accident, an illness, or an occupational error that results in a lawsuit? Taking on debt in the hope that your future income will make it okay is why so many are struggling today.
I’m guessing the doctor wife has no free time to research options and her husband is reaching for what seems like the simplest solution. The alternatives might include a longer drive to daycare, a job change or relocation, and a hard look at other spending. Can they sell something? Can they temporarily cut back on retirement saving?
I recently paid off a large portion of debt by cutting out all restaurant and takeout dining, selling clothes on Poshmark, selling some vintage comic books, switching to a lower cost phone service, and pulling the plug on most of my streaming services and subscriptions. In four months, I was able to pay off $15,000. My husband and I almost took out a home equity loan to deal with debt before we tried the hard way. It turned out the hard way wasn’t all that hard and the lack of stress that a loan payment would have added has been a huge relief.
Dave Ramsey is definitely out of touch on this issue (he’s lived his whole life in Tennessee where costs are lower, had a stay-at-home wife, and hasn’t had to worry about childcare in decades) but I have to agree with him when he says a loan is a bad “fix” for this situation.
As I mentioned in the piece, before taking out a loan, it was recommended the couple make sure they have term life insurance in case something bad did happen.
Also, while you might save a few dollars on a daycare that's a further drive, you have to figure how that time might be better spent, especially when you're working parents and your time w/ your children is already limited. Who wants to spend that time in a car. I would also imagine a move is impossible at the moment, given the wife is in the middle of training.
I don't like recommending loans either, I just think we need to be more clear eyed about why people make the decisions they do.
Life insurance only helps if somebody dies and it’s one more monthly payment people struggle to afford. There are no easy answers here. The childcare problem makes people desperate and that mind state often leads to bad choices. Sometimes all you’ve got is bad choices and worse ones. Our current system is not sustainable, that’s for sure.
Thank you for this story. I think it's so interesting that everyone (including several people in the comments) disbelieves that this is how much early childcare costs today. The idea that parents should be exploring "alternatives" (underpaid babysitters? unlicensed in-home daycares?) makes me want to scream.
I feel like they are the same people who, when something happens in an unlicensed daycare setting, blame the parent ( really, let's be honest blame the mother) for 'cutting corners' on daycare costs ( i.e. are their kids not worth the best!!)
100-percent
I don’t think it’s disbelief, I think it’s pointing out that there is a range of costs for services like daycare/childcare and yes, there are a lot of variables within those services (quality, coverage, location etc). You have to believe though, that not everyone in Philly is paying 40k/yr per child, right?
Philadelphian parent here who works in different preschools. We are not all paying $40K/yr per child. There is a huge range of quality daycare/preschool options in the city/surrounding suburbs. I am guessing that they are not from the are and have been told to stay in the fancier sections of the city for "safety".
Philadelphia parent here who lives in center city. Third kid is on daycare and we’ve never paid anywhere close to $40k per kid per year. I wonder if phila Dave is in a wealthy suburb like the Main Line. Though it is definitely possible to pay $40k per kid, we don’t and searched around a bunch bc we couldn’t afford to. We found our daycare by talking to lots of parents at the playground — never would have found it otherwise and it is a rare gem that is pay when you go - not one set rate per month. If your kid is sick or you’re away, you don’t pay. It feels as close as we can get to childcare for the people by the people who actually get it.
Sounds like Kids On 12th! I have heard only good things about them.
They’re the best, Alycia!
YES
Thank you for writing this! It’s a story I think about daily and I feel like we’re screaming from the mountain tops about how much it costs and no one is listening. Childcare is our second highest expense each month after our mortgage payment. My kid goes to a good school but it’s nothing exceptional. It’s just wild because as parents we’re told that we’ll have 18 years to save for our child’s education when in actuality we’re paying the cost of college tuition right out the gate for daycare. State colleges in my area are roughly the same price as childcare centers.
It really does feel like no one listens!
Dave from Philly aside, I have a lot to say about this. I live in an area where the cost of living has very quickly outpaced the median income level (mostly rural that saw a huge boom in population in the last 5 years). The cost of housing/care/services has doubled but pay has not, nor has the availability of these resources. The daycare my kids started at 7 years ago has increased by $140 per week (52%). There are 3 daycares in my town and none of them have openings right now. You have to take what you can get in many situations, and sometimes that means paying more. Yes, rural/in home daycares are often less expensive. But when people flippantly say there are cheaper options for care, you have to consider other things- Do I feel safe to leave my child here? Commute time; how long does it take to get from my house/from daycare to work and vice versa and can their hours accommodate that? I can't drive 30 minutes in the opposite direction with an already 35 minute commute to take my child to a daycare that opens at 7 and closes at 5, just so I can save $50 a week.
The reality of childcare in the US is very grim and so many people put the blame on parents instead of the real problem (abysmal governmental policy)
I wanted to talk about childcare deserts like where you live, but the piece was already too long. In NYC, things are expensive, but we have a lot of good options. It's not like that everywhere.
I just want to say, thank you thank you thank you for this post. You're making so many hardworking parents feel seen. Finances post-kid(s) are much more complicated and dynamic and we must consider our finances in a holistic way - which I think the advisor you spoke with did. I despise Ramsey's financial advice - he shames hardworking folks and like you said, so incredibly out of touch. There was a similar moment on the Joe Rogan show you and your subscribers may recall. Just a bunch of bros and boomers shouting out judgements that are anything but helpful. Again, thank you for shining a light on this!
Thank you!
Yes!!!
I haven't read all the comments yet, so someone might have had the same thoughts. As someone who was a child in f. USSR and whose kid was a recipient of the socialist system daycare, and then - partook from the pre-K in the US, I have a pretty good idea of both systems.
First: all these wonderful government money spent on free childcare is not free: they come from enormous taxes spread on all population, regardless if one is young, old or childless. Second: the quality of the supposedly equal daycare varied/ varies greatly. If a kindergarten is subsidized by a trade union, or a military base (for their staff), etc - they are terrific, otherwise - horrible, as everything that stems from socialist "equity" - it is an equity in poverty and mediocrity. Kind of the same difference as between a community center daycare and a Montessori center - or between a poorly-performing public school and a private one costing $40K +/year. To understand the reality of Danish system, please read the 1st-person account by a Dane: https://world.hey.com/dhh/the-reality-of-the-danish-fairytale-78069fbf.
Second: demands to government to increase spending - this time on childcare - will lead only to more taxes; this is how the government is conditioned to solve any problems. They are not going to cut something else and re-direct the funds; no - they will tax you more. Consider the effect it will have on our national debt - which has grown exponentially in the last 10 yrs and is now in the unimaginable trillions.
The solution, if only a partial one, I believe, is freeing those of taxpayers who pays for childcare and private schools, from paying portion of their taxes allocated to public schools. Kind of like voucher system - which proved very effective in terms of quality of care and education even in very poor, underfunded school districts. You would be amazed to learn how much you're paying towards local public schools, even if you're not using them for your kids. F.i., I know in Bergen Cty, NJ, 85-90% of local property taxes are directed towards their K-to-H.S. public system!
Here as a childless (and going to remain that way) adult to say I’m perfectly happy to be funding childcare and education through my taxes!
I think it would be wonderful for you to find a mother to sponsor, and donate personally to her childcare needs. What a blessing that would be!
of course - you're young and and have no responsibilities of your own.
unlike the majority of this country
No responsibilities? That’s news to me.
you just said you're childless. children are huge responsibility and are very expensive - don't believe me, just read the threads here
I want to pay more taxes to make childcare cheaper…
That's very civic-minded of you. What holds you from providing personal assistance to a concrete parent (like a P2P tax, so to say)?As opposed to forcing yet another tax on other people who are already struggling
Thanks for sharing the link about the Danish daycare. I will check it out.
As someone who grew up poor in NYC and saw the sacrifices that my parents made to raise us, I was always intensely conscious of the financial costs of having a family. So I'm always a little surprised when people seem so surprised.
Don’t ask me why I went reading the archives but 1000% agree with you. How this is a surprise expense to people blows my mind.
If you're going to have children, raise them yourself. There. Financial problem solved if you live within the means that one working parent can provide for. This business of shopping your children out to other people to raise from the moment they are born until they leave home is a big part of the problem with the mental health of many Americans. Ok. I'm ready, everybody. I have my face shield on and full body protective clothing. You can start lobbing rotten vegetables and outraged comments now.
The idea that if your child is not tied to you 24/7 you are not the one raising them is so harmful to kids. Daycare was such a gift for my only child. He learned to socialize with his peers. He made friendships that have stayed with him even now that they are all in different schools (he's 10 now). We have a large friend community that came about through daycare. And he got to learn from trained professionals. Covid remote school taught us real quick how unqualified we were to handle his learning.
I feel the same way! The community you can build through relationships you make with other parents you meet at childcare is priceless!
yeah, I think so much of these demands for 'parents' (read: women) to 'just stay home' is misogyny masquerading as "what about the children!" as is so often the case.
I don't think I can edit my comment but I also just wanted to add, I think it's so yucky that we also devalue the relationships that children build with other kids and with daycare providers. I've known so many families who've had such positive experiences there, and not all parents want to be home with their kids full time, that doesn't make them a bad parent
Rebecca, note the three tiny dots at the lower right under a comment. That's where Edit option lives. I know - they hidden it well!
hi, mental health professional here with a lot of experience working with kids and families. I have to admit I really bristled when I read your comment, but in the interest of trying to have a respectful dialogue, I really want to know: how are people affording the solution that you've proposed? what makes you think that this is a better approach for children's mental health? as far as I know, the reality is that even people who would like to be able to stay home with their children are often financially unable to do so for a variety of reasons. also, despite these barriers, parents are actually spending more time with their kids and they did in the past, there's a ton of research about this. so, I don't think that your argument that it would be better for children for them to be home with their parents is necessarily true either. but my original point stands, even if we were to agree that it was better, how are we going to make that happen for people if we don't have some way of making it financially viable?
Thank you for this. I, too, bristled. Such a generalization and pipe dream.
Before the original poster asks why people don’t live within their means, let me tell you that I am almost 40, have worked full time since I was 20 to have no debt; drive a 14 yr old car; shop exclusively at Aldi; think about every purchase; live well within our means and for my husband and I (both well educated), this would never work in the three states we have lived. We would never be able to save for a house emergency or our retirement on one income. Period. Daycare is and continues to be double our mortgage payment.
Thank you for not giving me too much hate. It’s about priorities– either you choose to parent your children and believe that is the best way to bring them up and find a way to do it so their needs are provided with one working parent, or you prefer to live in areas that are too expensive or choose a lifestyle that is beyond your means, or the health and well-being of your children are secondary to materialism. This isn’t a simple decision, and I’ll never claim that it is. Both husband and wife must be in complete agreement on this decision, preferably decided before marriage.
Parents who have children and then abandon them to day care, afterschool programs and summer camps, all of which are a financial drain, are not prioritizing their children or parenting. There also seems to be a belief that to be good parents requires lavishing them with material things and internet connected devices and enrolled in 4 or 5 extracurricular activities. You get what you pay for and often the return on investment is a child/children busied into depression and anxiety. Another motivation for two parents working is having the means to put their children through college, an over-priced ivy if that’s their priority, with the single-minded idea that a college education is the only means to their children’s eventual success. Maybe that was true several decades ago, but it no longer is.
I’m not just theorizing. I was a full-time stay-at-home mom until my son entered kindergarten, and after he started school, I worked part time hours so that I could be at home when he got home from school. We were a one-income family for 5 years, with no savings and I did not work full time until my son entered high school and had his own part time job afterschool. He wasn’t a latchkey kid. Our annual income was at lower middleclass level for most of those years. I learned frugality for survival’s sake. I spent many hours worrying how we could afford college (this was the late 80’s) but it turned out my son earned his own way into college and a post graduate PHD with his grades and grants and scholarships. He finished his STEM PHD at Notre Dame with no student loan debt. He’s married with 2 children and was a stay-at-home dad for my grands until they started school. They earn an upper middle-class income, but live well beneath their means without sacrificing extras. My grands have never been in daycare, and both my son and d-i-l are very engaged in my grandkids lives.
Responsible people know that there is a trade-off to everything. What those tradeoffs are will be different for everyone.
I completely disagree with all of this, Humdeedee. As the daughter of 2 working parents, I spent a lot of time in daycare and after-school care and summer camps. I wasn't "busied into depression and anxiety." I find that time I spent away from my parents (who I'm incredibly close to) made me resilient and independent. My parents are wonderful role models, and I'm lucky they live close and play a big part in my kid's life.
I'm very glad your family found a way to make it work with one parent staying home. But what works for you doesn't work for everyone. You make a lot of unfair assumptions about working parents and paint them in a really negative light. It doesn't help further this conversation.
Please re-read my comment and understand that I absolutely live within my means and prioritize my children. I don’t lavish my kids with extra-curriculars and devices, we are outside/at the library/at parks. All things that are free. We also eat at home and pack our lunches.
I am an incredibly responsible person, like most, who know that living off one income is not the norm or sustainable. Take a look at what you just wrote - your kid went to college for (sounds like?) free. If he didn’t, would he have taken out loans at Notre Dame and been in the same boat as most ppl in his generation? Would you give him the same advice that he shouldn’t work/shouldn’t send his kids to daycare to pay off his loans? Genuinely trying to be kind to show you the “system” doesn’t support stay at home parents or one income households.
She also mentions that she did this in the late 80s... the world has drastically changed in that time. The cost of college, real estate etc. is night and day different
Incredibly respectfully -- the workforce is 50% women. Our economy cannot handle more stay at home parents. Also women should be able to choose a career. I absolutely love being a mom to my two young kids, and have made decisions where I can spend more time with them, but I'm not serving myself or my family by taking time out of the workforce in this economy.
As the daughter of working parents, I am incredibly close with them. I learned a ton of skills growing up being involved in activities that help me in my everyday life today. I forged friendships and learned the importance of community. Your experience is valid -- but it's not something that is easily extrapolated to the entire country.
There is something to be said that the US is behind on subsidized child care compared to the rest of the world. Our birth rate is falling fast because it's just not financially feasible for people to have children.
I feel incredibly lucky that my grandparents, some of whom were STAP, have listened to what my family's current situation is and how it's changed from their own 40 years ago. They are now advocates for better family policies because they see how hard it is for their grandchildren to raise their young families.
I also disagree with your thinking, which is really a 1960s-1980s mentality. Wonderful for your family that your choices worked out beautifully. But what makes this country great is that people get to make their own choices. To say that daycare is bad or babysitters/nannies are bad and hurtful to children is sweepingly wrong. My sister chose to stay at home because she didn't make enough to pay for childcare for 3 kids....and then got into enormous credit card debt (NOT for vacations but for clothes, car repairs, etc) that created more stress than any family needed and contributed in some part to their divorce, which I think all would agree is not good for kids. My children went to daycares/had sitters/summer camps, both of my children have master's degrees with no debt, are both in stable, loving relationships, with jobs they find fulfilling. There is really no right or wrong way to do it, it's what you choose as a family.
I'm a bit baffled by the entire conversation. The cost of raising children is no secret, regardless of where you live. I don't get why so many (here, at least) seem to view it differently from so many other life choices. You get the education you need and can afford. You buy a house if can afford it; you buy a car if you need one, and then you buy the one you can afford; you buy the clothes you can afford; you buy the food you can afford. But kids? Just have them and figure it out later?
I'm not trying to be obtuse, cantankerous or argumentative - I genuinely fail to understand. My friends with children shake their heads and wryly marvel at the reality of the expense, as one might expect when anyone is confronted with the cold hard reality of something we previously understood only in theory, but they don't seem surprised or victimized by it, and they're prepared and equipped to make the tradeoffs they know need to be made.
I'm not living entirely in a bubble. I understand that some have children they hadn't planned; I understand that some have children at a point in their life when they're not equipped to plan thoughtfully and make mature decisions. I get that not everyone enjoys certain privileges of education, support or even basic functionality, and that a certain percentage of people become parents under less than ideal circumstances. I'm not talking about those situations. What I'm not understanding is mature, able-bodied, functional, educated, gainfully employed, (otherwise) financially stable middle and upper-middle class young people *complaining* about a perfectly reasonable and easily-anticipated tradeoff to an entirely discretionary life choice? Honestly, please help me understand.
Many people aren't having children because they've crunched the numbers. Also financial literacy (like many other things like health literary) is at an all time low, so even if you have children, truly understanding the cost you'll be confronted with is not always a given. Also, many daycares don't post their fees publicly and drive up costs every year. As someone who can afford 800/week in childcare with two children in a low cost of living area, I'm not sure how many can. My husband and I both make over 6 figures but many don't, I'm not sure how they afford to work and have daycare. Or the loss work on having the child out sick form daycare approximately 5-10% of the time.
Yes, as someone who's seen his grocery bill jump about 30% over the last couple of years, I totally understand the idea of prices creeping up faster than expectations, and empathize with the idea of struggling to try to figure it out. I get somewhat less sympathetic when complaints about the cost of day care sometimes seem to suggest resentment that "the help" expects to be paid a respectable (not merely "livable") wage, or when the view is taken that my taxes should somehow subsidize the life choices of perfectly able and relatively privileged citizens.
Many working parents are not privileged. You are ok with taxes paying for kids 5-18 but not 0-5? How did you perform that mental conclusion?
Also not to pile on, many people are waiting later to afford kids, and aging grandparents are willing but physically unable to care for growing children. So many new parents think they'll have "free" childcare with grandparents and are shocked to find Gigi unable to offer quality care for their kids and have to use daycare unexpectedly and did not budget for it
My husband and I both WANT a career, although I’m assuming that you really mean the mother should stay home and care for the children. Antiquated and mostly unhelpful.
What was startling to me when my oldest hit kindergarten is that we would still be paying so much for childcare. For after care, because school gets out at 2:15!!, for summer camps, for the myriad of weeklong breaks during the school year. Yes, it's less than daycare but it's still significant.
And for those saying they are paying too much- in my experience daycare has been impossible to find. I was on waiting lists for 10 daycares when I was 3 months pregnant and wasn't able to get in anywhere until my son was 5 months old. And even then, only 1 school was available. Sometimes you just have to go where there is a spot.
LOL, don't get me started on all the random days off. My kid hasn't had a full week of school the entire month of Feb. b/c of all the breaks (and then a snow day). If you need backup camp for those random days, it's easily $130+ a day.
I'm in the wrong business.
Oof! This was so helpful to read, thank you. My husband’s currently in the third year of a 5-6 year PhD program — which makes me, for the time being, the primary breadwinner. Our son will be 2 in the fall, and we’re starting to think about and plan for a second. But the #1 stressor for me has been wrapping my mind around how/if we can afford another $25k/year in daycare expenses! I’m saving as much as I can in preparation (which is hard enough already!), but just putting the idea of a loan on the table is actually very liberating.
Yes, no one really talks about saving for these costs, but it can really be necessary. I definitely recommend speaking to a financial advisor before you do take out a loan b/c they can offer good advice!
Agreed!
No advice - just wanted to say it is so hard! My husband was getting his PHD when I gave birth to our oldest and I actually had an older coworker tell me he thought it was irresponsible that my husband finish his degree instead of dropping out since we had a newborn (!!!!)
Just wanted to add - childcare was so expensive that my husband ended up caring for our daughter every other day (and working on his dissertation nights/weekends) while I worked from home the alternating days to care for her while working. This was pre-pandemic in the aftermath of the recession. I worked at an ad agency for fortune 100 clients, my husband was getting a PHD in engineering at an Ivy League. We were youngish (28), but insanely privileged (good jobs, minimal college debt, white) and yet it felt like there was so much shame in having a child when we did. There is this insane tightrope you have to walk of having high paying jobs, no debt, and perfect timing re: pregnancy and then you can just barely eek by having a child. Absolutely no wiggle room or it’s all shame (my personal experience)
Thank you so much for sharing, Eliza!
Rent & Childcare were my biggest expenses until my daughter was able to start at a public kindergarten. Now our biggest expenses are Rent & Child-Related Activities :). I am also a husband who is currently owning summer camp planning. After I lost my job last May (and have since decided to remain job-less) part of the agreement I came to with my wife was that I pick up all the child care and activity planning. I vastly underestimated how much time this stuff takes! I had to infiltrate all the mom facebook groups to get access to all the good mom only spreadsheets of summer camps!
Ah! So glad to meet a dad who plans for camp! I will say, there's a bit of a motherhood mafia (cabal? coven?) that does hold all the secrets to camp planning. It might be more equal if we shared that info more freely.
The spreadsheets are a real thing!
I think it's a little out there, but I only know from my own experience. We currently pay $20,400 per year per child for a daycare that is five-star rated (per the state rating & inspection system). I don't think it's anything fancy or upper-echelon. Middle of the road. That said, the $20,400 covers each child for the full 12 months of the year, except the obvious national holidays and two extra staff holidays, and also covers 7am to 6pm daycare hours. $25k per year is a lot more, but to also have to pay extra for a nanny when this daycare is closed, plus pay extra for before and after hours care is excessive. There have to be other options. It's hard when kids adjust to a place, make friends, and trust is established. All in all, it's a five year problem per child that you have to trudge and slog through and this person had a doctor's salary at the end of the tunnel, others don't. You know what's best for your kids, but from a financial perspective I would at least consider the child care alternatives before borrowing money for a daycare that isn't meeting all of my needs. It's also important to note that child care costs don't completely end with daycare. While it can be significantly less than daycare was, there are camps/track-outs, sports, and even before & after care for school systems short/bad hours for working parents.
I live in the MIDDLE OF MISSOURI and we have two young children (3) and (1). We expect to pay close to $36K on childcare this year. I also work four days a week now, because we couldn’t find care on Fridays for my youngest. These are the realities! I also have an understanding employer and flex as appropriate— the only way to survive this. Thanks for writing this! I
I would highly recommend the book the Nordic Theory of Everything by Anu Partanen, who delves into the differences between American and Scandivanian nations, with a whole chapter talking about childcare cost. I know it doesn't quite help in this situation where people are looking for solutions now to childcare problems in the US, but here's hoping for any parent out there that they can find the help they need.
As a Canadian, we now get 12-18 months of 55% of our salary for parental leave (half of that time could be either given to the mom or dad). Every time I read a story about Americans and their lack of parental leave always floors me how uncaring the system is to families. Going back to work after only 2-3 months is unthinkable, and I can't imagine the stress. We have no close family members to care for our daughter, but luckily I work from home and we've worked out a system of pick up and drop off from school now. Our govt in Quebec subsidizes a lot for schools and daycares (subsidized daycares are $8 CAD/day, ours went to a private one was which was $77CAD/day), so summer camps are relatively affordable by comparison ($100 CAD/week), but we also live in a smaller town. We pay higher taxes for sure, but we've never gone into heavy debt due to childcare. QC has been a forerunner in affordable daycare in Canada, but it does comes at a price - we have a crippling shortage of daycare teachers and teachers in general due to poor working conditions. Some are on waitlists for years to get into any kind of daycare (public or private), so it's not all rose-colored glasses here either. There are now 4yr old kindergarten classes because daycares simply can't accommodate more children for that long. I've never had a subsidized daycare, had a babysitter for one night and there rest of the time, it was just me staying at home, or initially I worked at restaurant and used my evening shifts to switch with my husband for about year until COVID hit.
If Americans hope for a better future, it's essential to vote for representatives who will fight for your interests. Here's hoping at least for a few states who can get their act together to work in the interest of current and future parents.
Agree, voting is essential. And thank you for sharing more about how it works in Canada!
Love that book! But also do read the article about the Danes in the original post
I would add that we should also be advocating for universal Prek. I live in Washington DC and paid $20,000/year per child for daycare (very middle of the road, but was for 12 months of the year. I've actually never heard of a daycare closing for the summer like Philly Dave says). However, it's only 2-3 years as full day preschool starts at age 3 in DC and is a part of the public school system. Beginning at age 3 our only expense was after care at school from 4-6pm AND the early childhood programs as a part of the universal PreK system are fabulous.
In NYC, it's pretty common for pre-schools with 2s and 3s programs to close during the summer months, or offer different kinds of care at a different price.
And yes, 100% to pre-K and 3-K. This should be universal. Unfortunately, in NYC, 3k is on the budget chopping block.
That is huge!
My town (Watertown, MA) just announced a free pre-K program starting this fall and… when I tell you, I cheered! Because my son was born in September, he won’t actually be able to start until he’s 5 😅 but maybe they’ll expand it by then.
K. I haven’t finished yet because I had to stop and comment on the Dave Ramsey advice. I am screaming with laughter that these were thoughts in his head that he then let filter through to spoken word. Not one of those filters thought “hmmm is this reasonable or applicable to most humans?” Nope just from thought to statement in a flash. (Heading back in to read the rest…)
I think taking out a loan to pay for childcare is a terrible idea. What happens if something derails his wife’s career plans like an accident, an illness, or an occupational error that results in a lawsuit? Taking on debt in the hope that your future income will make it okay is why so many are struggling today.
I’m guessing the doctor wife has no free time to research options and her husband is reaching for what seems like the simplest solution. The alternatives might include a longer drive to daycare, a job change or relocation, and a hard look at other spending. Can they sell something? Can they temporarily cut back on retirement saving?
I recently paid off a large portion of debt by cutting out all restaurant and takeout dining, selling clothes on Poshmark, selling some vintage comic books, switching to a lower cost phone service, and pulling the plug on most of my streaming services and subscriptions. In four months, I was able to pay off $15,000. My husband and I almost took out a home equity loan to deal with debt before we tried the hard way. It turned out the hard way wasn’t all that hard and the lack of stress that a loan payment would have added has been a huge relief.
Dave Ramsey is definitely out of touch on this issue (he’s lived his whole life in Tennessee where costs are lower, had a stay-at-home wife, and hasn’t had to worry about childcare in decades) but I have to agree with him when he says a loan is a bad “fix” for this situation.
As I mentioned in the piece, before taking out a loan, it was recommended the couple make sure they have term life insurance in case something bad did happen.
Also, while you might save a few dollars on a daycare that's a further drive, you have to figure how that time might be better spent, especially when you're working parents and your time w/ your children is already limited. Who wants to spend that time in a car. I would also imagine a move is impossible at the moment, given the wife is in the middle of training.
I don't like recommending loans either, I just think we need to be more clear eyed about why people make the decisions they do.
Life insurance only helps if somebody dies and it’s one more monthly payment people struggle to afford. There are no easy answers here. The childcare problem makes people desperate and that mind state often leads to bad choices. Sometimes all you’ve got is bad choices and worse ones. Our current system is not sustainable, that’s for sure.
Yes, we can definitely agree that our current system is not sustainable!